Curse

Kai Nui · Jun 12, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I have this same problem with guilds. As a matter of fact, me and another person on here invented minion factory a long time ago, and I still make up builds to this day. With all the new skills out, it makes it so much more fun to invent builds. Perhaps they don't always work, but a lot of the time it's fun to just fight guilds and keep them guessing because we're not anything like they think we are. Of course my guild disbanded a long time ago, and I'm looking for a new one that still believes in these simple plans of GVG, HOH, TA, and mind stimulating inventing. It just really bothers me to see touch rangers and IWAY.

Gonzo · Jun 12, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

I decided to PUG a mission yesterday and felt sorry before even going in. Once we were in it went smoothly, but it took forever to get a team, because the leader wanted a cooky cutter team setup. 2 tanks, 2 monks, 1 echo nuker, 1 ranger, 1 MM, 1 SS.
There was a severe shortage of Necro's and monks, and not that much E/Me arround either, but any other class combination just wouldn't do. It saddened me, there was a mesmer looking for a group! I like mesmers, I like to have them in my party, but he wouldn't even think about inviting him

because the last spot was for a SS.

pigdestroyer · Jun 12, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntmaster

Omfg, OP, why weren't you running Eviscerate/TF build!

because he is a noob

I bet your poisonous pet will be the new metagame congrats!

Slainster · Jun 12, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

This problem arises in nearly every game. What people want are effective builds, and let's be honest, cookie-cutter builds ARE effective. I'm not saying they aren't more effective builds in existance, but simply put, cookie-cutter builds work well.

Part of the problem is the masses do not support "different" builds. You see people spamming "GLF MM necro, SS necro". Well, if you are a necromancer, it can be hard to get in a group if you claim you are something other than an MM or SS necro.

Yeah.. this does suck. Playing my nec, i generally dont advertise a specific build. My pref is blood spiker, personally i dont find SS as effective, and MM, although loads of fun, is high maintenance.

markus_thom · Jun 12, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

When I play PvE though, I see myself switching to MM to be able to get into groups... that or just saying Im an SS and using the build I mentioned.... hehehe its not like anyone ever notices

~prime[/QUOTE]

These solutions could be changed when you look at alot of the mob layouts in guild wars you ussualy see alot more of certain classes or builds within the enemies that spawn around guild wars making tanks very effective and mm usefull due to being able to take the pressure off groups due to minions.
If anet were to vary mobs a little it might make certain classes more usefull in certain situations.

I mean all anet would have to do is to make more layouts of monster spawns that counter and hurt the more used proffesions.

Reminds me of ages back when the whole order and mm barragers/pets thing that would do tombs runs.

I decided to go trapper Instead of the normal barrager of course still bringing a pet for mm. This was before the minion nerf.
I brought skills like healing springs whirling defence, sheilds up dust trap barbed confort and charm pet skills it varied. Mainly built around the idea of increasing the minions armour with sheilds up and dust trap for blinding healing springs for healing. We got through tombs in quick time yet people left at start of game because I wasnt a barrager.

Thoe rember this and rember it well.

In life we have the sheep of the world who copy each other, its just the same as guild wars thank god the so called creative people still exist.

makosi · Jun 12, 2006, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Surena

This game is not life, don't mix things up. I read a disgusting level of arrogance in this thread. Some people use their brains off-game and play games to relax not scientifically. You are not your uber-build, your armour, your sundering zodiac sword of zomgness. If it annoys you, accept it or leave the game.

I'm aware that this game isn't life - believe it or not and your statement has contributed to the "disgusting level of arrogance in this thread". It doesn't bother me that much - its more of a confusion issue for me. I play the game to relax but 'relaxation' doesn't imply that you are brain dead and only capable of copying things. If I were to leave Guild Wars it would be to escape the elitists <of which i will not name any names> but not because of cookie-cutter builds. Not like its a huge deal but I accepted it a long time ago. I was just putting a word in - if you don't like that, accept it or leave the forum.

BeowulfKamdas · Jun 12, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Cookie cutter or not, I think it really comes down to how the build is played and even moreso on how well the you use the build to react and adapt with your teammates to overcome the opposition.

This is probably why I can't stand the RA anymore. Because there isn't that much room for adaptation and teamwork as there is in Team Arenas or in GvGs. (because who you get as a teammate is really a #@#$shoot

Well, in the end, if I'm setting a GvG up or a TA team, I would much rather take a Shock Axe Warrior a crazy mystery warrior.

led-zep · Jun 12, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Penguin

I did not say that my build was the #1 prime reason that we won 16 times in a row. And I never said my build was "oh so AMAZING", I just said it was effective, thats all. Stop exaggerating.

And yes, I make up 25% of of my team so I did influence how the team went.

So you have seen a build similar to mine? That's good, it is nice to see people designing new things. And as for the SS Necro, he used Arcane Echo + Spiteful Spirit, which is VERY typical. Do not try to tell me that is not cookie-cutter.

so you judged him by 2 skills?

i take it in your build you had charm animal and maybe comfort animal? does this make you a cookie cutter pet/barrager?

what an incredibly judgemental person you are

art_ · Jun 12, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizukaseru

When on earth did "cookie-cutter" and "efficient" become synonymous?

^ word up homeboy

[NRN] Kepa Nimo · Jun 12, 2006, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Sorry nOOb question, but am new. Where can i find more info on the cookie cutter, MM and SS you all talk about?

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 12, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Where do all these 'cookie cutter' builds come from anyway? Someone thought out these builds, found out that it works well, and then people found out about it.

Navaros · Jun 12, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Simple fact: 99% of "test builds" royally suck.

I'd take a cookie cutter over a "losing test build" any day.

The game may not be called "Cookie Cutter Wars", but it is also not called "Losing Test Build Wars".

Desert Penguin · Jun 12, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

so you judged him by 2 skills?

i take it in your build you had charm animal and maybe comfort animal? does this make you a cookie cutter pet/barrager?

what an incredibly judgemental person you are

It is not like I am going to observe every single skill he used, but he fought exactly the same style that most other SS Necros do. Like I said, I have NO problems what-so-ever if people play cookie-cutter builds, UNLESS they flame and abuse people who play non cookie-cutter builds.

I did not flame or abuse that necro for using Arcane Echo + SS. I was okay with him. But he certainly abused me for using a pet that uses Poison Bite.

Desert Penguin · Jun 12, 2006, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Simple fact: 99% of "test builds" royally suck.

I'd take a cookie cutter over a "losing test build" any day.

The game may not be called "Cookie Cutter Wars", but it is also not called "Losing Test Build Wars".

You have to keep improving and altering "losing test builds" until they become good builds. If you have a W/Mo and think Mending is rubbish, switch it to Vigorous Spirit. I did this with my ex-Mending Wammo and now he has become a more efficient Wammo.

I feel sorry for you. Are you telling me you do not have the ability to design something for yourself?

PS: The build I used was is no longer a "test build" because I have testd it A LOT an it works great. I find it funny that you see only 2 types of builds - Test builds and Cookie-cutter builds.

Navaros · Jun 12, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Penguin

You have to keep improving and altering "losing test builds" until they become good builds. If you have a W/Mo and think Mending is rubbish, switch it to Vigorous Spirit. I did this with my ex-Mending Wammo and now he has become a more efficient Wammo.

I feel sorry for you. Are you telling me you do not have the ability to design something for yourself?

PS: The build I used was is no longer a "test build" because I have testd it A LOT an it works great. I find it funny that you see only 2 types of builds - Test builds and Cookie-cutter builds.

I don't know if I have the ability to design something myself or not. The point is, why would I want to? There is no worthwhile reason to.

Why would I want to spend time losing during a "testing" phase?

For me, and I think, for most players:

Winning = fun.

Losing = boring.

Which is precisely why cookie cutter builds will always dominate Guild Wars.

I can see your point about you made a good new build, and that's respectable. But, for every one like you with a good new build, the 99 others doing "something new" will be a handicap to their team and make it akin to 3v4 for the enemy team. Do you see that side of the coin as well?

Thom · Jun 12, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

These types of builds are around the forums. That or ask basically anyone in game.

"Boon/Prot" isn't a build it is a skill and a strategy.

"Minion Master" isn't a build it is a strategy.

"Shock Warrior" normally refers to an ax build... but their aren't that many ax skills to begin with. Could also refer to a sword varient.

"Knockdown Warrior", strategy not a build
.
"SS necro" Few skills and a strategy.

"Bonder" Two skills and a strategy
...

When played by a good player, "cookie cutter builds" are often effective strategies. Bad players can take the same skills and be horrible. These builds have been around for a while largely because they can't be easily countered.

I love making my own builds which are extremely nuts at times, but they also tend to be incredibly gimmicky or easier when done another way. Sometimes you find yourself doing something with 4 skills that you'd do just as well with 2 skills. The OP was talking about using poison bite... why not drop the pet and just bring apply poison? Now you have at least 2 slots free to increase the damage of your sword attacks. Gimmicks are often countered by a single skill: a single target condition builds die hard to mend condition, a fairly common monk skill. IW gets owned by enchantment removal, but still slips under the radar many times in RA.

I enjoy taking this game somewhat seriously and if I didn't it really wouldn't be as fun. I don't take RA seriously and I often use it to test builds. I have gimmick RA builds which would last 30 seconds in TA, but they get 10 wins in random arenas. "Cookie cutter" builds are good to learn and understand if you want to be a well rounded guild wars player, but they aren't necessary to casual players.

Top PvP teams are constantly adjusting, modifying and overhauling their builds. Their isn't one exact build, let along build type which is universal in top end PvP. Guild wars has more than enough strategic depth to tinker and provide an amazing competitive environment, but this doesn't mean that it is easy to come up with combinations that rival popular cookie-cutters.

Desert Penguin · Jun 12, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

I don't know if I have the ability to design something myself or not. The point is, why would I want to? There is no worthwhile reason to.

Why would I want to spend time losing during a "testing" phase?

For me, and I think, for most players:

Winning = fun.

Losing = boring.

Which is precisely why cookie cutter builds will always dominate Guild Wars.

I was not losing much even in my testing phase. I altered the skills around to suit the conditions of the battle. For example you don't want to bring Sprint if you know that nobody is going to run away from you. Building your own character is that simple. You don't need to pull your hair thinking of something new.

Somebody in this thread mentioned that these forums encourage cookie-cutter builds. I disagree. To the contrary, these forums are against cookie-cutter, since I always see people say "Please give me suggestions on my new build" or "Here is a build I designed myslef, what do you's think of it".

There are benefits of bringing non-cookie cutter. First off, people don't know how to counter you properly if they do not know what your build looks like. For example, when I played a non-cookie-cutter Me/W that does not use Ilusion Weapon, I noticed that everybody was using "Shatter Enchantment" or "Strip Enchantment" on me, thinking I have Illusion Weapon, even thought I had no enchantments. They just wasted their energy on me. See what I mean?

It is okay to play cookie-cutter. However it is not okay to flame people who do not play cookie-cutter like that SS Necro in my thread.

Quote:

I can see your point about you made a good new build, and that's respectable. But, for every one like you with a good new build, the 99 others doing "something new" will be a handicap to their team and make it akin to 3v4 for the enemy team. Do you see that side of the coin as well?

I would think that by the time somebody reaches RA/TA and has played GW for at least 30 hours, they have designed their own build and it works reasonably well. The "testing phase" is normally during the beginning of PvE or the first time they entered a PvP mission.

Quote:

The OP was talking about using poison bite... why not drop the pet and just bring apply poison? Now you have at least 2 slots free to increase the damage of your sword attacks.

Apply poison has an energy cost of 15 (if I can remember properly), and it is hard for a warrior sometimes. If I have Death Penalty, my total Energy might be too low to even use it. Still, I havent tested Apply Poison yet, but will in the future. Thanks for the advice. As for pet auto-attack vs Adrenaline skills for swords, the thing about Adrenaline skills is they are almost useless if you are blinded, which is what happens a lot in PvP. As for pets, nobody bothers to blind them, so in practise I find pets more effective that adrenaline skills in PvP. Thats ust my opinion.

joncoish · Jun 12, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

These threads are so stupid. Basically the only reason you made the thread in the first place was to show how cool you are, and how "hardcore" because you make up your own builds ALL the time, and of course have NEVER used anything someone else did. Let people play the game how they want to, and quit judging them for it, because really, WHO CARES?!?!?!?

lyra_song · Jun 12, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncoish

These threads are so stupid. Basically the only reason you made the thread in the first place was to show how cool you are, and how "hardcore" because you make up your own builds ALL the time, and of course have NEVER used anything someone else did. Let people play the game how they want to, and quit judging them for it, because really, WHO CARES?!?!?!?

Um...did you really read the OP? The OP's point is simple:

Just because you ARENT using a cookie cutter build doesnt mean you cant be a good player.

This thread is a complaint to those players who pigeonhole and stereotype professions into very very few specific builds and refuse to work with them if their build is not a "proven" cookie cutter style build.

Its a very legitimate complaint.

striderkaaru · Jun 12, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

i like cookies.